15 October 2002

Exploring the Sensual and the Sacred: An Interview with Jacqueline Carey
by Amy Harlib

Amy Harlib, an avid and lifelong reader of SF & F literature, is retired with plenty of time to indulge in her passion for reading. She lives in New York City and welcomes intelligent feedback and discussion about the genre. Other enthusiasms include cats, archeology/anthropology/paleontology, folklore and mythology, genre films, science for intelligent laypersons, and memoirs/narratives as literature.

You have an established career in academia, in art history and criticism. What made you want to write an epic fantasy novel?

This is confession time, because the truth is, I'm a professional dilettante. While I've worked in the visual arts and done research and writing in the field, I'm not an art historian. What's on the flyleaf of Kushiel's Dart is a piece of communication gone awry (it does happen sometimes in publishing) and is a bit misleading, although it's a mantle I'll certainly wear with pride.

With that said, there is a direct link — certainly in the Western tradition, as well as in many other non-Western cultures — between religion and mythology and the visual arts. Powerful symbols find their way into visual representation, and in preliterate or illiterate societies, images provide mnemonic cues that serve to keep narrative alive. From time out of mind, since we were scrawling hunt scenes on the cavern walls of Lascaux, the two have been inextricably linked.

I've always loved mythology in all its forms. These are the stories that inform our collective unconscious; these are the raw stuff of our dreams. Gods and monsters, heroes and villains, saviors and victims. Our archetypes derive from myth, and epic fantasy fiction at its best draws on this wellspring. I wanted to work with that rich material.

And I am, without apologies, a lifelong reader; yet there's a dearth of epic fantasy that has all the resonance of heroic structure, while retaining a mature emotional sensibility. In short, I write books because I want to read them.

Are you a fan of genre fantasy fiction? Do you have any writers you admire, who have influenced you?

I am a fan, though I read across a broad spectrum. In fantasy fiction, one of my favorite works remains John Crowley's Little, Big. I very much admire Guy Gavriel Kay, who I think draws beautifully on existing mythologies. I love Patricia McKillip for her lovely, evocative prose. Richard Adams is underappreciated in the U.S. as a tremendous world-builder and myth-maker; the denouement of Shardik brings me to tears.

One of my biggest influences, however, is Mary Renault, a British author renowned for her novels of ancient Greece. The Persian Boy was the first work of adult fiction I ever read. I date my love affair with ancient history and mythologies to reading that book, and the opening lines of Kushiel's Dart are a covert homage to it. She has a wonderful knack for succinct, lyrical description, and the ability to write about great events from an observer's standpoint while capturing the scope, which certainly influenced my writing.

Also, for this book, I looked to Robert Graves' wonderful I, Claudius, which is another great work of historical fiction written in the first person. I read works like Queen Margot by Alexandre Dumas, which capture a sense of swashbuckling adventure and intrigue. And I would be remiss if I didn't mention Winterlong by contemporary science fiction author Elizabeth Hand, which inspired the Court of Night-Blooming Flowers.

It is clear that your intellectual interests played a part in forming the background of Kushiel's Dart, the alternate Renaissance European setting, the presence of angels as a prominent part of the spiritual life of the inhabitants, etc. How much of yourself went into creating the characters, specifically the narrator/protagonist Phedre, a truly remarkable utterly believable and complex person? Are any parts of her or those she interacts with autobiographical?

I think there's a part of the author in every character. There has to be, to bring them to life. When all is said and done, though, Phèdre is unlike me in many ways. She lacks cynicism, which is a claim, alas, I wish I could make. She has a capacity for boundless optimism I very much admire, as well as a gift for languages for which I would kill. I think writers frequently endow their protagonists with gifts we wish we had, and it surprises me that linguistic ability doesn't surface more often. It is, after all, the essence of our stock in trade.

That's one answer. The other is: Just enough.

A major part of the fascination of 'Kushiel's Dart' is the importance in the plot of the strong connection of spirituality with sensuality in all its forms in ways that challenge traditional gender roles and attitudes in our world. These aspects of the novel reminded me of such Asian belief systems as Taoist Sexual Yoga and Indian Tantric practices but with your own inventive twists. Some of the more explicit scenes in the book could be potentially controversial for some prudish readers. Could you please elaborate on this? Is there a hidden agenda pleading for promoting open minds in readers, for more tolerance of cultural and behavioral diversity here?

On a certain level, yes. I gave a lot of long, hard thought to this book before I wrote it, and I questioned myself many times in the process. Ultimately, I felt it was worth doing, that the book would lay the groundwork for a valuable dialogue. There's a tremendous amount of eroticized violence in our society, and it's not something often acknowledged. It's there, though, in Hollywood blockbusters, in mainstream literature — and we don't talk about it. So I thought, well, what happens when you turn the formula inside-out? What happens when you take a strain of dark eroticism out of the background and put it in the foreground? Let's find out.

As it happens, it took me places I didn't expect. But I did take pains to address provocative topics in a manner that was not sensational, that didn't exploit the subject matter; and yes, I was definitely looking at the connection between the spiritual and the carnal. It's been interesting to note that a number of readers have taken the precept of Blessed Elua, which is central to the book and D'Angeline society, as a statement of license. Love. AS THOU WILT. It's not. It's a commandment, an injunction. LOVE. as thou wilt — in all that that entails.

Kushiel's Dart is the first of three books; there are two sequels to follow, stand-alone books in an overall story arc. And perhaps I'm over-ambitious, but I hope that ultimately they address not merely the obvious link between pleasure and pain, but the more profound one between compassion and suffering, between atonement and redemption. Collectively, I hope they explore the idea of love as a divine force, an active principle in a world in which the divine is made manifest in mortal flesh.

This, for me, is a myth worth believing. If it renders one reader in a hundred more tolerant, more mindful, I will be glad indeed.

What is a day in the life of Jacqueline Carey like? How do you structure your time for writing fiction and your academic duties at work in a local college and your family life? How does your family feel about your venture into fantastic fiction? What are your favorite leisure time activities, hobbies, recreational pursuits and do they also infuence your writing?

Finding time to write, while working a full-time job and maintaining a well-balanced social life, is always a juggling act. I'm no different from many writers in that respect. I write in the evenings and on weekends. The where and when varies from writer to writer, but the simple truth is, if it matters enough, you find the time. And I am fortunate in having a partner, friends and family who are wonderfully supportive — in large part, I think, because they all love to read!

My favorite leisure time activities generally involve friends, food and a martini shaker, and represent a respite from work and writing. Travel, however, is the one thing I love which has proved a significant influence. There is no substitute for inhaling the air of a foreign place, for treading the very paths of history.

One trip that had a significant impact on this book was a couple weeks I spent traveling in Provence, which is truly gorgeous. The landscape, the wonderful cuisine, the quality of the light, the scent of lavender in the air — all those things came into play in the setting of Terre d'Ange.

Critical response to 'Kushiel's Dart' has been overwhelmingly positive which must be very gratifying. Has there been any interest in adapting the novel to other media: film, TV mini series, gaming, animation?

The critical response has been wonderfully reassuring, because it's always frightening, as an artist, to take a significant creative risk. As far as other media adaptations, I'm not aware of any serious inquiries, but I think that will come in time. The book's only been out a few months [when this interview took place], and is making its way across the threshold of public awareness.

I think, frankly, any adaptation would have to be handled with a great deal of delicacy. Once you lose that first-person perspective, it's all too easy to exploit the more sensational aspects. Of course, I'd be willing to try, as a screenwriter or a consultant.

Could you please share your plans for any sequels to Kushiel's Dart? Any thoughts about what you might write further down the road? Do you plan to attend conventions to promote the book?

Phèdre's saga will continue in two sequels both stand-alones contained within an overall story arc. The first, Kushiel's Chosen, is due out in April 2002, and I've finally added a bit of information about it on my website, www.jacquelinecarey.com. I don't want to spoil anything for new readers, but it picks up where Kushiel's Dart leaves off and goes places no one could anticipate. The first half is a mystery, and the second half is a roller coaster ride.

The third book, as I envision it, will be a bit different — more somber and mature, with some very dark elements. Kushiel's Avatar is the working title. Hopefully, though, the brightness will ameliorate the dark aspects, and it will provide a profound resolution to the arc. As for further works. we'll have to see! I have a handful of ideas fighting it out in the cauldron of creative Darwinism.

I don't have any convention plans in the next few months, but I hope to become more active next year, and fit a couple into my schedule. I do update my "News & Events" section regularly, so anyone interested can keep tabs on my whereabouts.

How has the Internet affected your writing and promoting Kushiel's Dart? Do you have any thoughts and comments about the world wide web and genre fiction or fiction of any kind?

That's an interesting question. Yes, it definitely affected the writing, insofar as I was able to do a fair amount of research online. It's a dubious proposition where historical or scholarly accuracy is concerned, but there are valuable resources like archives of classical texts, which I sometimes use as source material.

In terms of promotion, I think any contemporary author would be well advised to have a web presence. Readers like to have a source of information about authors they enjoy. They like to be engaged, too. Sara Douglass, with whom I toured this summer, has a very active bulletin board that gives her fans a forum in which they can interact, with her and each other. It has a genuine and lively sense of community; and that's just one example, of an author whom I happen to know. I'm sure there are many, many others.

What's wonderful is that they DO evolve, at their best, into true communities. Fans of genre fiction can be wonderfully kind and supportive. Given a commonality — an affinity for a writer's work — they will rally around it and create a marvelous gestalt, among individuals who may be continents apart. That's the miracle of the Internet, and how it is changing the way in which we communicate with one another. The problem, of course, is that maintaining an online presence is a job unto itself. Most authors don't have the financial means, the time, nor the technological know-how to do it well.

I'm afraid I number in that group, for the moment. I hope that will change in time.